Clover

press, drip, syphon, clover

Postby Jeff Givens on Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:42 am

Forgive me if I've missed out on something, but what precisely is a "pressurized vacuum?" That term is a contradiction of itself.
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Postby scottlucey on Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:02 pm

you are right jeff, and thank you for making me be more clear.
re:"pressurized vacuum" i mean to say that i thought there is/are comparisons to vacuum brewing, and in these comparisons clover 'something more' than just a vacuum.

i'm throwing that out there to have someone either agree and elaborate (this is where a clover rep. comes in) or for someone to disagree and we'll leave it at that.

thanks for making me be more clear. sorry to jumble words.
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Postby Mark Prince on Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:55 pm

Just to pick up the thread and also to be as fair as possible...

Esmeralda got a second "go" on the Clover yesterday at Elysian Lab. I brought in some much-appreciated "Auction Lot" Esmeralda courtesy of Zoka Coffee, and Alistair one-timed it on the Clover - no dial in, no multiple brews, just ran a test coffee through the machine, fine tuned it and the grind, and then ground up the Esmeralda for the Clover.

I was initially thrown because Alistair asked us to taste the "dial in brew" and that coffee was still on my palate when I tasted the Esmeralda Especiale. And I thought it was a bit flat. But that was the two coffees intermingling.

A quick water rinse of the old tastebuds, and further tasting of the Esmeralda showed it to be pretty excellent. I said at the time it was in my top two, top three coffees ever off a Clover, but that was during the first few sips. As it cooled and mellowed (as well as changed), it got better and better overall as an experience.

Most important for me was that the technique that Alistair uses introduces a fair amount of body into the cup. It's no where near what the press offered, but both Rob and Alistair believed the press overwhelemed certain things in the cup, and I tend to agree with them.

It was a great coffee off that machine, much better than the previous attempt which was with an auction-sample of the Especiale, roasted by me, and probably roasted badly.

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Postby Andy Schecter on Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:55 pm

Mark Prince wrote:Esmeralda got a second "go" on the Clover yesterday at Elysian Lab....Most important for me was that the technique that Alistair uses introduces a fair amount of body into the cup.


Mark, do you know how many grams of coffee Alistair used, and how many ounces (or ml) of beverage were made? Still a massive updose?
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Postby Mark Prince on Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:04 pm

Andy Schecter wrote:
Mark Prince wrote:Esmeralda got a second "go" on the Clover yesterday at Elysian Lab....Most important for me was that the technique that Alistair uses introduces a fair amount of body into the cup.


Mark, do you know how many grams of coffee Alistair used, and how many ounces (or ml) of beverage were made? Still a massive updose?


12oz brewed, 32-34g I think. 40something brew time - I think it was 41 or 42seconds. Alistair can confirm or correct.

Still a lot of coffee, but not up in the range some companies have settled on.

Meanwhile, at home I had the Zoka Esmeralda on a Freling 2 cup press (8-9oz brewed), and I use 14g measured in it; delivered a really great cup on its own.

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Postby Andy Schecter on Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:27 pm

Mark Prince wrote:12oz brewed, 32-34g I think. 40something brew time - I think it was 41 or 42seconds. Alistair can confirm or correct.

Still a lot of coffee, but not up in the range some companies have settled on.

Meanwhile, at home I had the Zoka Esmeralda on a Freling 2 cup press (8-9oz brewed), and I use 14g measured in it; delivered a really great cup on its own.


Your press pot at home seems to have been brewed close to SCAA recommendations.

Alistair's Clover brew was approximately a 40% updose (if your memory is correct), well below the 100% updose that some people are apparently using.

The higher consumption of expensive coffees is obviously not a deal-breaker, it's just something to be taken into account when people are projecting their Clover ROI.
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Postby Alistair Durie on Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:50 am

it was brewed at our default setting: 12oz, 31g, 41sec, 203f
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Postby onocoffee on Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:43 am

Alistair-
Why the 203F temperature setting? Is this to compensate for the "open air" design of the water stream and brewing chamber - meaning: does the design require a higher temp setting because the water cools?

Or does the higher temp "balance out" the shorter brew time?
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Postby James Hoffmann on Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:33 am

My rough calculations put this at around 87g/litre. I think this falls within NCA (Norwegian one) Gold Cup standards, assuming you are extracting 18-22%. I was surprised to see how weak the SCAA Gold Cup standard was.

I want both a Clover and a TDS meter for Christmas please...

Some of the best cups of Clover I've had have been up at the very top end of the heat spectrum, the best actually being brewed at 212F.
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Postby Rich Westerfield on Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:12 am

Do any of you with Clovers brew less than 12oz servings as a default?

Wanted to try a top Rwandan I'd never had over the weekend. I'd already had a solid morning's worth of caffeine, so I didn't want a full cup. But I did want to taste it.

However, there was no choice for size at the shop I visited. 12oz or nothing from the Clover. Since I knew I was going to toss half or more of the cup, it was a bit offputting to pay the premium. I would've felt I'd received a value at a 6oz or 8oz serving. But at 12oz it was, IMO, too much of a good thing and, for me, somewhat of a waste.

I don't know enough about the device to know if there are quality compromises at lower volume cups. But I'd also think that if the goal is to get people to try from a menu, a smaller (and less expensive) size serving would be a valuable marketing tool.

Can someone elaborate on the "default" being 12oz? Or is that a shop by shop decision?
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Postby Jeff Jassmond on Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:24 am

Rich Westerfield wrote:Can someone elaborate on the "default" being 12oz? Or is that a shop by shop decision?


It's definitely a shop by shop decision. Unless the machine is password protected, or baristas are instructed to only serve one size, it is a very easy adjustment to make.

We offer 8 and 12 oz. cups at the Annex, and the ocassional 6 oz flight. Some customers know that they can request a 16 oz. to go, and "for here" customers often receive a 10 oz. pour to top off their mugs.
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