Cupping with cold water

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Cupping with cold water

Postby tim on Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:25 am

Hello.
I have done some research on cupping and found that without pre heating the cupping cups or glasses, I am brewing on a temperature between 75 and 83 degrees Celsius(167 - 181,5 farenheit).
While pre heating the cups gave me a brew temperature of 86 to 93 degrees celsius (187 - 199,5 F)depending on the glassware or china.

Any one else have experience with this ?
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Postby Steve on Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:07 pm

This is a really good point Tim I've forgotten I guess when cupping. Cup - Heat before using them makes perfect sense. I've spent an age souring great bowls and missed this one.

Peoples experience of this would be very gratefully received here too.
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Postby James Hoffmann on Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:51 pm

Have you tried the same coffee in cool and heated bowls? What's different?
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Postby Alistair Durie on Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:18 pm

the trouble is when preparing grind samples for a flight often takes 10 minutes to prep it all up and by that time the cups are cool again. this, and putting grinds into warm cups is trouble.
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Postby Steve on Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:39 pm

I wonder if you used heat pads (like ones used in photography development for keeping development fluids warm) would work keeping the pre heated bowls up to temperature, can any one think of a reason why this may not be a good idea? Its only to take the edge of so its not like its heating it

Alistair you say grinds into warm cups not a good idea, what would you see as the potential problems?
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Postby tim on Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:00 am

James.
I have not had time to test the sensorial differences between a cold and a hot cup, but I definately will tomorrow.

I agree it is not the best idea to keep grounds in a heated cup, as coffee does not like heat except in the brewing water.

However, if you ground the coffee in small containers and smelled the grounds from the container before pouring the grounds in to the pre heated cups just prior to brewing, it might work.

I will have to test this some more though and see if there really is a significant difference.
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Postby James Hoffmann on Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:09 am

Also say you are pouring water into 8 cups from one jug. What is the temp difference between the first and last cup you pour?
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Re: Cupping with cold water

Postby Andy Schecter on Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:25 pm

tim wrote:Hello.
I have done some research on cupping and found that without pre heating the cupping cups or glasses, I am brewing on a temperature between 75 and 83 degrees Celsius(167 - 181,5 farenheit).
While pre heating the cups gave me a brew temperature of 86 to 93 degrees celsius (187 - 199,5 F)depending on the glassware or china


Your post was interesting, so I ran a little experiment. I compared the thermal performance of a Bodum double wall glass to a 375ml "French jelly glass."

Image


To each glass I added 7.5 grams of coffee:


Image


And then poured in 160 ml of water, just off the boil. Four minutes later I measured the temperature of each sample using a low mass bead-type thermocouple. The results:

Double wall Bodum: 186F
French jelly glass: 168F


Image


There are at least two reasons why the Bodum sample was so much hotter: (1) the double wall provides insulation, and (2) the Bodum weighs only 108g compared to 257g for the jelly glass, so it provided less of a heat sink.

The jelly glass certainly is more practical for daily cupping use; it's a lot more durable.

Of course, the most important question is whether one type of glass provided a better cupping experience. I have done very little cupping, but in this single test I didn't find the flavor balance to be significantly different, especially when they both cooled down.
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Postby tim on Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:03 am

Well, I have tested it today with some ethiopia yrgacheffe grade 2.
I found only a slight difference in taste while temperature wise it was a 4 degree celsius difference.

The cooler not pre-heated cup had a slightly less aromatic cup and less sweetness. It also seemed a bit more watery in the mouthfeel than the hotter cup.

The hotter pre-heated cup had a more balanced flavour, more aromatic, especially when the coffee itself was hot and more sweetness.

I found that when the coffee was cooler, the difference was harder to detect. I even gave my room mate a try and she did not notice any clare difference except that the cooler cup was more fruity / acidic.
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