Bunn to launch a Clover-esque machine in ATL?

[Kevin Cuddeback]

My rep tips me to the Bunn Bubble Brewer, a single cup, french press vacuum system being unveiled at the SCAA. Significantly less expensive than Clover. No other details available to me at this time but you might call your rep and try to pry more info our of them.

This is not an endorsement, just letting you know what I heard.

[Scott Rao]

You think they'll remember to not lose all the heat during extraction and maybe even allow a little body into the cup?

[Robert Goble]

In brief talks with Bunn last year about a Clover alternative, they expressed to us a desire to develop a pod-based commercial system for quick service single cup brewing. It was very clear at the time that they didn't get the quality thing -- and only saw the quick service idea.

McDonalds, unmanned kiosks, and gas stations near you will be all over it.

[Andy Schecter]

You think they'll remember to not lose all the heat during extraction and maybe even allow a little body into the cup?

Yes, it'll be interesting to see if their bubbles solve the problem that plagues the "other" fast-brew system: underextraction.

[phaelon56]

In brief talks with Bunn last year about a Clover alternative, they expressed to us a desire to develop a pod-based commercial system for quick service single cup brewing. It was very clear at the time that they didn't get the quality thing -- and only saw the quick service idea.

McDonalds, unmanned kiosks, and gas stations near you will be all over it.

Do they have some alternate take on the process that will differentiate them from the many commercial vending single serve pod systems that are already out there? (some of which brew what is - in a fast food or gas station context - a pretty decent cup of coffee).

Or are they just recognizing the presence growth potential and looking to horn in on the existing market by virtue of their brand strength?

[Luke Shaffer]

You think they'll remember to not lose all the heat during extraction and maybe even allow a little body into the cup?

Easy buddy, I love my Chemex

[Andy Schecter]

In brief talks with Bunn last year about a Clover alternative, they expressed to us a desire to develop a pod-based commercial system for quick service single cup brewing. It was very clear at the time that they didn't get the quality thing -- and only saw the quick service idea.

Rumors say this is the Bunn brewer that was demoed to private audiences at last year's show. Last year, Robert, weren't you their competition? Maybe they fed you, uh, a little misinformation.

It is NOT a pod-based low-quality system. It is intended for righteously good fresh-ground specialty coffee.

As Scott says, did they tweak the brewer so that it does a proper extraction in 2 min? If not, careful taste testing will "burst Bunn's bubble." hahaha.

[Robert Goble]

Rumors say this is the Bunn brewer that was demoed to private audiences at last year's show. Last year, Robert, weren't you their competition? Maybe they fed you, uh, a little misinformation.

It is NOT a pod-based low-quality system. It is intended for righteously good fresh-ground specialty coffee.

As Scott says, did they tweak the brewer so that it does a proper extraction in 2 min? If not, careful taste testing will "burst Bunn's bubble." hahaha.

I'm puzzled here - you are talking about rumors and then making statements. How about sharing what you know?

(When I talked to Bunn last year it was after the Clover sale to Starbucks and it was from the perspective of looking to find a new product to replace it in our business model. That doesn't mean they would necessarily be upfront with me, but I wasn't anybody's competition - I was an equipment dealer looking to replace a hole in his product line).

[Andy Schecter]

Hi Robert:

I don't mean to be obtuse. But a year has passed, perhaps at this time you could ask your Bunn rep again.

[Robert Goble]

Andy - how about you share what you know? I'm very interested in this information (which is why I shared my experience in this thread) Isn't that the point here? Sharing what we know so others may know it too? Don't dangle the carrot and pull it away - that's not cricket.

[Andy Schecter]

Andy - how about you share what you know? I'm very interested in this information

Robert, I, too, am interested in this topic, but I don't know much. I followed up on Kevin's original post in this thread because I was hoping to stir up the pot and hear more from others.

When I was down in NYC last weekend I spoke with someone who claimed they attended a private demo of Bunn's single-serve brewer at last year's SCAA show. The brewer was designed for use with quality, fresh-ground coffee, but was still under development. Supposedly it will be ready in time for this year's show.

Sorry, buddy, I don't know more than that.

[Luke Shaffer]

bueller?

[Kevin Cuddeback]

The Bunn reps brought this by for a demo this week. Here's some bullet points from memory.
- 110v with a 16 oz boiler. They mentioned possibly increasing the boiler-size in the production version.
- 1 ounce of coffee per 8 ounces of water
- grind slightly finer than french press, coarser than flat bottom
- ground coffee goes into a portafilter-type cup which has a perforated steel plate on the bottom.
- As water saturates the grounds, slight vacuum prevents water from dripping through the bottom plate.
- Then they hit an agitation sequence: 5 seconds on 10 seconds off. The vacuum sucks air through the perforations in the bottom plate, the bubbles agitate the grounds.
- Extraction happens as (it would seem) vacuum pressure reverses and air pushes the liquid through the "puck" through the perforated plate.
- Total brew time was about 1:30
- User can program the agitation sequence (in half seconds) and temp.
- Knock out spent grounds same as a portafilter. Spent grounds are slightly drier than drip. Coarse particles are on top and fines on the bottom.
- Target street price was expected to be around $2800
- They're tooling up, intending to launch early 2010
- This isn't a product endorsement, just food for thought.

I tasted a dozen extractions none of which struck me as truly remarkable. That said, I'd be interested in playing with it for more than an hour. I left the demo most interested in the material composition of perforated metal plate.

Tangentially, somebody send us anonymous feedback that there's another sophisticated single cup/SO brewer soon to hit the street.

[TimNoble]

So, How did those dozen extractions compare to what you get from a Clover brewer?
thanks for the sneak peak, Kevin.

[phaelon56]

So, How did those dozen extractions compare to what you get from a Clover brewer?
thanks for the sneak peak, Kevin.

Indeed. Did it have some programmability for temperature and brew time and is the open are less exposed than Clover ? (i.e. the surface area of coffee as well as the path of the heated water when it is first delivered to the coffee)

28 grams seems like a lot of coffee for an 8 oz extraction but IIRC that's about the ratio used for Clover - correct? I think I recall people mentioning 45 or so grams for 12 to 16 oz of coffee. I've loving the Clever dripper for the couple of weeks I've been playing with it and get excellent results with 11 to 14 grams for 6 to 8 oz of water (depending on grind and extraction time - which I am still playing with). 1:30 is appealing in a commercial environment but still.... unless the results are stellar even $2800 is a lot for a single cup demand brewer.

[Andy Schecter]

Thanks, Kevin, for the interesting and detailed update.

- 1 ounce of coffee per 8 ounces of water

[/broken record mode ON]
This no longer surprises, but continues to disappoint: since knowledge of the basic principles of extraction is still so rare, unacceptable performance like 1 oz coffee to 8 oz water is considered a viable coffee maker.[/broken record mode OFF]

- Target street price was expected to be around $2800

In the same way that Starbucks got people accustomed to paying $4 for a mediocre cup of coffee, Clover got cafe owners to accept mediocre multi-thousand dollar single serve brewers. Caveat emptor.

[sutono]

During our demo (last week), we were able to get the dose way down from 1oz by increasing bubble time and increasing total steep time. Basically, the cup that we liked best was an automated french press. We couldn't get anything that we liked at a higher dose with a course grind and short extraction time, or at a lower dose with a finer grind with a shorter extraction time.

The demo did, however, get me thinking quite a bit about how i agitate a french press and the result in extraction. Human bubble time. The cup results varied quite a bit based on bubble time.

The machine is supposed to cost around $2800 to roasters.

I was sworn to secrecy.

[sutono]

I forgot to mention that you can program the force of the air plunge that forces the brew through the grounds and the screen. That seemed to have an effect on the brew as well, but I can't quite remember how. Like Kevin, we only had an hour or so.