Is no web forum safe from the aeropress?

press, drip, syphon, clover

Postby Robert Goble on Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:36 pm

PaniniGuy wrote:...But I'm bringing a "damned" Aeropress in my suitcase. Hopefully with a bag of the Novo Wild Forest if it gets here on time (and my cheap-ass Lello Ariete) 8)


ahhhhhhhhh! :shock: Is no web forum safe from the aeropress?
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Postby Mark Prince on Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:49 am

Robert Goble wrote:
PaniniGuy wrote:ahhhhhhhhh! :shock: Is no web forum safe from the aeropress?


Ahhh - Rob, I still have yet to get you properly "metalized" on the Aeropress, laddie ;) I made Jake a convert! Are you next? ;)

(as an aside, I think there's a killer business opportunity in mass marketing the photo etched discs for that thing - Alan Adler, bless his soul for all his craziness, as sold thousands and thousands of these things).

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Postby Rich Westerfield on Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:13 am

Robert Goble wrote:ahhhhhhhhh! :shock: Is no web forum safe from the aeropress?


Robert,
Admittedly, I threw that in only because of your earlier comment on it. :D

However, I am delighted I no longer have to worry about my Bodum presses breaking in transit when I'm traveling. That alone is worth the $30 for the AA. When somebody else comes up with something as light and affordable and useful in brewing a decent cup that I can stick in my suitcase, I've leave the AA behind.

Mark - of what do you speak, "thousands of those things"??
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Postby Mark Prince on Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:03 pm

PaniniGuy wrote:Mark - of what do you speak, "thousands of those things"??


Adler has had amazing exposure for his product - everything from digg.com to about a gazillion threads on CoffeeGeek, and a lot of mainstream press. I haven't been told the direct numbers, but indirectly from some vendors who sell the product, it's moving faster than they can stock their shelves with it.

There is an element that will take it to near "clover" levels - in fact, I'm pretty convinced I can mimic a clover brew, using all the same parameters - grind, dose, water volume, steep time, water temperature (that's the fluctuator though). But only with this particular element - one that Alan does not want to sell because of this weird obsession with LDL cholesterol in coffee that doesn't pass through paper. This is why we weren't allowed, by Alan, to use this disc and more mimic the clover in Charlotte.

It's a photo-etched, precision made, thin steel filter screen. I have it in two sizes here - american measurements - the one that works is 0.005" holes, 0.01" spacing (IIRC).

It really takes the aeropress brew to another level (mind you, one also has to throw out the instruction booklet and brew it another way - inverted, baybee). And there's a rich opportunity out there for anyone willing to set up a biz just selling this aftermarket item for the aeropress. Heck, I may do it soon, if someone else doesn't jump in and do it. I have another project on the go, but once that's completed, I may very well take this one on. I guess I have the benefit of actually having one of these disks on hand... but I need to find some modeler dudes who have photo etching equipment. ;)

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Postby terry on Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:37 pm

MarkP wrote:[
(as an aside, I think there's a killer business opportunity in mass marketing the photo etched discs for that thing - Alan Adler, bless his soul for all his craziness, as sold thousands and thousands of these things).

Mark


:wink:
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Postby Rich Westerfield on Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:40 pm

MarkP wrote:Adler has had amazing exposure for his product - everything from digg.com to about a gazillion threads on CoffeeGeek, and a lot of mainstream press... it's moving faster than they can stock their shelves with it.

Thought you meant the metal disc when referring to "thousands of those things", not the Aeropress itself. My error. Was wondering how I could've missed mention of such.

Which brings us to...

MarkP wrote:There is an element that will take it to near "clover" levels - in fact, I'm pretty convinced I can mimic a clover brew, using all the same parameters - grind, dose, water volume, steep time, water temperature (that's the fluctuator though). But only with this particular element - one that Alan does not want to sell because of this weird obsession with LDL cholesterol in coffee that doesn't pass through paper. This is why we weren't allowed, by Alan, to use this disc and more mimic the clover in Charlotte.

It's a photo-etched, precision made, thin steel filter screen. I have it in two sizes here - american measurements - the one that works is 0.005" holes, 0.01" spacing (IIRC).


So, are these disks available to the average Joe? Also, the guy (Emile?) who originally had linked to a photo set of the inverted process in a CG post is no longer on Flickr, and neither are those photos. Any idea where one can get a look at the inverted process?
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Postby Jason Haeger on Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:56 pm

terry wrote:
MarkP wrote:[
(as an aside, I think there's a killer business opportunity in mass marketing the photo etched discs for that thing - Alan Adler, bless his soul for all his craziness, as sold thousands and thousands of these things).

Mark


:wink:

Does this mean you're going to start production/sales of said discs?

That's the only thing I've been waiting for before buying an aeropress. I refuse to buy one unless I can get a metal filter for it.

If it were available with a metal filter, i'd buy one, on the spot.
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Postby darrylr on Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:17 am

Mark, please do produce metal filters for the Aeropress. I'd certainly buy a set.

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Postby Mike Paras on Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:05 am

PaniniGuy wrote:Also, the guy (Emile?) who originally had linked to a photo set of the inverted process in a CG post is no longer on Flickr, and neither are those photos. Any idea where one can get a look at the inverted process?


http://scott.marquardt.googlepages.com/ ... ttercoffee
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Postby Rich Westerfield on Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:44 pm


Thanks Mike. Brilliant.
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Postby Mike Paras on Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:13 am

You're welcome- all I did was point to Scott's work. :)
He's pretty advanced (or 'hardcore' or 'third wave') in his farmers market set up- brewing his home roasted beans by the cup (good use of an acrylic tube so he can press directly into a paper cup.)


Has anyone (MarkP?) here tried the polyester material? It's an intriguing concept- filtering most of the fines but leaving the oils.
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Postby terry on Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:55 pm

Jasonian wrote:Does this mean you're going to start production/sales of said discs?

That's the only thing I've been waiting for before buying an aeropress. I refuse to buy one unless I can get a metal filter for it.

If it were available with a metal filter, i'd buy one, on the spot.


Yep. Top secret project. I can't really mention allot about it, but some top coffee folks are involved. They should be on the market real soon. :D
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Postby Mark Prince on Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:32 pm

darrylr wrote:Mark, please do produce metal filters for the Aeropress. I'd certainly buy a set.


Today, I had a really intersting talk with a fellow on the east coast who works in the metal fabrication industry, who not only wants to take this project on, but really start tearing down the walls in filter basket and dispersion screen manufacturing, and start from scratch again. And other elements too... pretty much anything you can think of involving filtration and coffee. Even Philips Senseo machines for cripes sakes.

I'm pretty stoked by it all. The aftermarket aeropress may just be the first step in this project - and what's really interesting is something I was just talking to Nick today about, and reiterated to this fellow - about "working the matrix" in filter hole layout and design from a completely new angle.

If it goes anywhere, I promise full disclosure on it. They'll probably be available in Canada first, but I imagine there'll be no trouble shipping to the US and other parts of the world.

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Postby Mark Prince on Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:35 pm

mikep wrote:Has anyone (MarkP?) here tried the polyester material? It's an intriguing concept- filtering most of the fines but leaving the oils.


Yeah - along with the metal filters, one other thing Alan sent along to me were a variety of polyester weave materials of different sizes and shapes and stuff, and I tried them - but they're very difficult to clean, and even though I didn't do this - I thought they'd be easy to fall apart too. I have only tried them a few times though; the metal filter is so much better, I had no reason to go back to them.

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Postby Jason Haeger on Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:17 am

terry wrote:
Jasonian wrote:Does this mean you're going to start production/sales of said discs?

That's the only thing I've been waiting for before buying an aeropress. I refuse to buy one unless I can get a metal filter for it.

If it were available with a metal filter, i'd buy one, on the spot.


Yep. Top secret project. I can't really mention allot about it, but some top coffee folks are involved. They should be on the market real soon. :D

That's all I needed to hear.

You guys rock! :D
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Postby terry on Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:30 pm

MarkP wrote:[
Today, I had a really intersting talk with a fellow on the east coast who works in the metal fabrication industry, who not only wants to take this project on, but really start tearing down the walls in filter basket and dispersion screen manufacturing, and start from scratch again. And other elements too... pretty much anything you can think of involving filtration and coffee. Even Philips Senseo machines for cripes sakes.
Mark



Yeah, that sounds allot like what Ken Nye and I are working on. We mentioned it way back in April at the SCAA, on a Portafilter.net podcast. I can't really say much more, but it's coming real soon. :wink:
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Postby Mark Prince on Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:16 am

Of course, you mean that thing that people like Alistair, Jay, Bronwen, Jim Schulman, Andy Schecter, myself, and probably many others talked about amongst ourself and even brought it up with Ken back in Seattle, and soon after, in 2005?

The ideas have been bouncing around for a while. It's good to see that more than one company is finally stepping up and possibly addressing the issues that have long been ignored by machine manufacturers - the design of water flow to the puck, and how the espresso flows through and out the filter. Last real development in this arena that I know about was Illy's look into ideal puck diameters and thickness levels - but even then, it only proposed a size, not materials, hole patterns, or much look into the dispersion screens.

Full credit where it's due though - I don't know anyone who talks more about dispersion screens and baskets than Jake the Coffee Lover and Alistair. It was Alistair, way back when I first met him that started hypothosizing on the problems in that arena. He was the reason why I went up to Ken Nye at the SCAA Seattle conference and suggested that after his tamper project rolls out, he should consider looking into filter baskets and dispersion screens; then IIRC, I suggested to Alistair he talk to Ken because Ken was not only enthused, but said he'd been thinking similar things.

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Postby terry on Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:47 am

MarkP wrote:Of course, you mean that thing that people like Alistair, Jay, Bronwen, Jim Schulman, Andy Schecter, myself, and probably many others talked about amongst ourself and even brought it up with Ken back in Seattle, and soon after, in 2005?

The ideas have been bouncing around for a while. It's good to see that more than one company is finally stepping up and possibly addressing the issues that have long been ignored by machine manufacturers - the design of water flow to the puck, and how the espresso flows through and out the filter. Last real development in this arena that I know about was Illy's look into ideal puck diameters and thickness levels - but even then, it only proposed a size, not materials, hole patterns, or much look into the dispersion screens.

Full credit where it's due though - I don't know anyone who talks more about dispersion screens and baskets than Jake the Coffee Lover and Alistair. It was Alistair, way back when I first met him that started hypothosizing on the problems in that arena. He was the reason why I went up to Ken Nye at the SCAA Seattle conference and suggested that after his tamper project rolls out, he should consider looking into filter baskets and dispersion screens; then IIRC, I suggested to Alistair he talk to Ken because Ken was not only enthused, but said he'd been thinking similar things.

Mark



Paying attention to requests is what we do best. Learning from the best in the trade and adapting what we have learned to real products is where we will all benefit. Thanks for noticing that we are stepping up to the plate to do this work.

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Postby jakethecoffeelover on Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:51 pm

I can say without hesitation that the Aeropress is capable of brewing very good coffee. When Mark organized a cupping of the top three Cup of Excellence Brazilss few monthes ago, he made some coffee for everybody to try in the Aeropress. IIRC, the #2 coffee was absolutely amazing in the Aeropress. It was very sweet and creamy, but lacked character... contrast... complexity. In this case, it remained balanced and well-rounded. I suspect that it may not yield such great results with other coffees that are renowned for their complexity, but I have only tried the Aeropress a couple of times. As soon as the smoke clears about this whole metal filter thing, I'll run out and get one for myself.

As for the portafilter baskets, I truly feel that dispersion patters, basket dimensions, and hole patterns are logically the achille's heal of the espresso machine. Their effects on extraction have seldom been explored in depth, which leads me to believe that there must be lots of room for improvement and experimentation. I sure hope someone important is listening in right now.
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